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Post by Pixie on Sept 21, 2004 17:13:50 GMT
PK suggested a new thread for those of us getting a wee bit carried away on the "Down Under" thread with our discussions of Shakespeare... and as I certainly can witter about the guy's works for England, I thought I'd go right ahead and start it.
My fave play is prolly Henry V... because of the glorious franglais, mainly! (having been a French student, and speaking it fluently, it makes me lol!)
Other pet plays are Macbeth (of course! The closest runner up!), Much ado about nothing, Hamlet... actually, there are quite a few.
But I HATE Titus Andronicus - the only play I detest. Nasty, evil, gory, and the villain really is an all-out villain (useless nugget of info: most Shakespeare villains repent in the end. Apparently, only two don't, Iago, cos he's the evil half of Othello, and Aaron from T.A., cos he's a bastard). He comes to a sticky end, though ;D
Anyone gonna join me in wittering about the Great Bard?
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 21, 2004 18:23:41 GMT
As I like evil and gory, and unusual pies, I have soft spot for Andronicus! Lol! I could give a very long first post about my Will addiction, but I haven't got time all in one go! Lucky you! Anyway, I first succumbed to the lure of Shakie with... yes, Macbeth! It is so often studied by 14-16 year olds, no matter where you come from. With me it was O level (shut up, I know I'm old!), and I think half of the group really got into it and the other half remained puzzled at best, and in deep loathing at worst. Such a pity that Shakespeare isn't often taught well because so many kids get turned off everything he wrote just because they failed to "get" the first play they were forced to read. And the other point to make here is that plays are meant to be seen... I have seen many, MANY productions of Macbeth, all quite different in staging, nuance etc. I have to say my fave when I was younger was a very vigorous (and yes, very sexy) production in the round at a studio theatre in Newcastle. Mac and his lady were hot for each other (James would def have approved!), and they had three sets of three witches, up on scaffolding behind the audience in different areas of the studio. And they threw giblets and whatnot at us! Very cool! Lol. So my love grew, as the RSC took to bringing the plays from their Stratford season up to Newcastle every winter for a few weeks. I saw some totally rocking productions two years running, productions I'll never forget. One of them even helped me writing a stonking essay on Troilus and Cressida in my degree finals. I kid you not. It just made everything so clear I could feel my mind opening and expanding as I watched... all without the aid of drugs! You don't forget things like that in a hurry! So T&C is still one of my faves. Bitter, twisted, cynical, sad, glorious. And I was studying Othello at A level at this time. Again, this pulled me further in rather than turnig me off. Another of my faves. I have seen a couple of desperately awful versions of the play... and I'm sorry but I include the Larry Olivier film in this (jesus, his makeup was coming off on Desdemona's white shift, apart from anything else.) But thankfully some great ones too. Bob Peck as Iago in an RSC production was marvellous (can't remember how long ago that was). And I'm glad James gave credit to the recentish movie version, with Kenneth Branagh as Iago and Laurence Fishbourne as Othello. I really loved it and was mad at some critics who were fairly lukewarm about it. Idiots!! Got to go get changed now. More later
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Post by Pixie on Sept 21, 2004 19:23:55 GMT
I first got into Shakespeare properly thanks to my nanna (God rest her loving soul!). My mum had given me Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare to read, but at the very grown-up age of 7 (yeah, I'm not kidding. I was seven) I decided I wanted to try the real stuff. My nanna used to look after me after school, and gave me the run of any book I could reach. That included her beautiful, leather-bound copies of various Shakespeare plays. I picked one at random. It was The Tempest.
BLOODY HELL I LOVE THAT PLAY!!! I've never seen it (or most of the others, though have read them all), but it infused me with magic and imagination in a way that, I honestly believe, changed my life - it made me see the world in a different way. I believed in fairies, cos Shakespeare was a grown-up, and seemed to believe in them. He became my guru. Hence, years down the line, I still want to be a writer myself.
The first play I saw was A Midsummer Night's Dream in Stratford... it was beautiful, utterly charming. I was pretty young at the time - no more than 10, certainly, possibly less. The fairies were all dressed as characters from children's stories - so Puck was Robin Hood, and the "Over hill, under dale" fairy was Alice in Wonderland. The scene where they talk was done on a huge spider's web made of tensile steel (so my mum said! I actually haven't got a clue what tensile steel is!), with a huge leaf on it for them to sit on... so they looked teeny in comparison. It was fantastic, and I was completely enthralled by the whole thing. I remember that scene most of all, though...
Oops, gotta dash - Spike's about to fall off the wall!
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 12:42:58 GMT
That must have been so wonderful as a kid, Pix I don't think I have ever seen Dream in a theatre, but I have been to a few open air productions in my time. You know the sort - touring companies, venue castle grounds etc, picnics and garden chairs. ;D On with my Shakespeare history, lol! You kinda get the picture now. Not just a Will lover but an RSC groupie was emerging. My friend Elaine gave me a lovely volume of the collected works for my 18th birthday, which of course I still have And I got it into my head that, although I had a college place, unconditional offer, I didn't really want to go straight on to more study after A levels. There wasn't a lot of talk of gap years in those days, and we sure didn't have careers advisers coming into school then. So I hatched a plan without telling the elders (parentals or teachers) but my mates were in on it! I wrote to the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust in Stratford asking if they would have any jobs for someone like me, and I was invited for an interview in the summer hols right after we finished school. So me and some of the gals arranged a camping holiday there, where we "did" a few plays - Anthony and Cleopatra (Glenda Jackson!) rings a bell, but I might be getting my dates muddled, and I went for this interview. The only reason I wanted to do this was to go to the theatre ALL THE TIME! It was just before the government brought in VAT on things like theatre tickets so it was affordable. And of course there was The Other Place, the studio theatre, not just the main house (it was before they built the Swan on the side). The Trust created a full time guide job for me at Anne Hathaway's Cottage - all the jobs were p/t then. And I didn't realise it at the time - because I was having such fun with sex and drink and theatre and politics, and freedom in general that I just never thought it through - but they were intending for me to move on to their library/resource centre in time. I could kick myself now, but I wouldn't have been ready for it then Again, saw some truly amazing productions during this time such as The Taming of the Shrew with the inestimable Jonathan Pryce roaring about on a motorbike. And also playing icy Angelo in Measure for Measure (another of my faves - see how I like the dark and twisted stuff, heh!) Um, this is turning into my memoirs, not a Shakespeare discussion - SORRY!! So to cut a long story short, after 18 months I decided I did want to return to study afterall. Worcester is near Stratford, they ran a combined studies degree then, one of the options being "Literature and Life in Shakespeare's England" and so I was sold! Yay! (not sure why I am still here though, lol!)
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Post by Pixie on Sept 22, 2004 16:55:10 GMT
Worcester's a nice place though, innit? Think I've been there, to the cathedral. Wow... must have been amazing to be so involved with everything, and get to see so many plays! I've seen very few - R&J, Much ado, and the Dream - I think that's it. I don't much care for R&J, but I saw a wonderful production in London some years back - I went with school. It was a minimalist production, which was naff in places, but where the family finds J 'dead', and leave the nurse to grieve alone after they've gone off weeping and wailing... Oh my God, my best friend and I didn't realise, but we were gripping each other's hands so much there were really deep nailmarks in our hands, and we were crying like the world was ending. It was the most powerful stage moment I've ever seen... Saw most of the Dream at an outdoor production in Regent's Park ages ago. Was sick, so missed half But wasn't nearly as good as the RSC one as a kiddy (I think it was RSC, anyway). Danced in a ballet production of it, too when I was about 13. I was a (rather tubby) moonbeam, trying to flit rather than thud around the stage (I did ballet at a stage school out of school hours till I was 13). I'd love to see them actually performed... some I've seen as films, but it isn't the same. But there isn't a good theatre nearby, which is a real pain. I'd specially like to see The Tempest and Henry V on stage. Not Lear, am too squeamish; studied it for A-level (along with Measure for Measure), and couldn't face seeing someone's eyes put out on stage. Bleurgh. So I chickened when there was an outing. I quite liked M4M too, PK. But Angelo was a bit of a git, as I recall. Goes with the name, maybe
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Post by deborahw37 on Sept 22, 2004 18:36:11 GMT
Well currently it's all about The Tempest with me because I've been working on some Tempest workshops that tie in with an amazing national touring production, best Caliban I've ever seen! Saw a very odd " Measure For Measure" at The Globe last month , played as broad comedy And I have fond memories of a school trip to see Coriolanus which for some reason dressed the hero in studded pink leather and had his first appearence half way up the wall with one leg either side of a gate at this point I was a young innocent who'd never heard of slash but even then I thought it an odd choice especially combined with the directors insistance on pronouncing the titular characters name as "Cor ai o lay nus" oh dear ! ;D Macbeth is a play which I dearly love and dearly hope to see done "properly" one day And I'm shutting up now because otherwise I'll be rambling on and drawing diagrams of how to stage act four ( including set dressing and lighting scripts) And then you'll all be bored to tears Oh , can I just say Titus Andronicus! so wrong on so very many levels
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Post by Pixie on Sept 22, 2004 19:12:17 GMT
And I'm shutting up now because otherwise I'll be rambling on and drawing diagrams of how to stage act four ( including set dressing and lighting scripts) And then you'll all be bored to tears Oh , can I just say Titus Andronicus! so wrong on so very many levels (1) wouldn't bore me at all, but I might disagree with you and it might therefore end in fisticuffs! lol. (2) With you on T.A. *shudders* had nightmares for weeks after I'd read it - and I was 19 at the time! Shakespeare could sometimes be incredibly twisted...
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 20:22:20 GMT
Certainly... but yay for that! ;D Yes, Angelo is a git, Pix. But he can be portrayed as a complex, repressed, damaged git and thus elicit some sympathy for the character. Otherwise... he's a git plain and simple! Get technical if you like Deb. I like the sound of that Cor, what an anus! Er, Corialanus. I saw Alan Howard as Corrie way back in the mists of time and that was a revelation *nods* But he wasn't clad in pink, as far as I recall
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Post by Pixie on Sept 22, 2004 20:29:32 GMT
Never really thought of Coriolanus in slash terms before. Other plays, it may have (more than) crossed my mind... I mean, Horatio/Hamlet... you've got to wonder... lol. And Rosencrantz and Guildenstern always remind me of the Summoner and the Pardoner from the Canterbury Tales - slimy couple of nasties as ever you could wish to avoid! Who needs enemies with friends like that. But I did wonder... Well, there's a lot to wonder in that play! Falstaff/Henry's another one. And also, of course, Romeo/Mercurtio/Benvolio. Quite a lot of mileage in that little 3some! Mixing Shakespeare and slash suddenly seems like a particularly amusing way to spend an evening! ;D
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Post by deborahw37 on Sept 22, 2004 20:52:54 GMT
Get technical if you like Deb. I like the sound of that Cor, what an anus! Er, Corialanus. I saw Alan Howard as Corrie way back in the mists of time and that was a revelation *nods* But he wasn't clad in pink, as far as I recall Well I really need a napkin and a pencil ;D but ok a quick technical The problem with Macbeth is that the action is ( or should be) very fast and there are a lot of scene changes . Shakespeare could get away with this because he didn't use a lot of scenery or props . All too often directors and producers bog themselves down in how to get everyone on and off and it all gets complicated .You don't want to distract the audience from that amazing soliliquy , and that inevitable downfall You also don't want to kill your cast with endless tech rehersals . So what I would do in order to let the actors concentrate on the acting and to keep that pacing brisk is have a very simple stage set, just neutral angled drops from the flies ( no PK not * that sort of flies*) these serve two purposes , firstly they act as arras ( PK I've told you before, stop giggling) and allow fast entrances and exits .. then if you blow the budget on the lighting script you can project colour and texture on to them.. thus , as long as your lighting computer doesn't blow and you have a good lighting tech you can morph from castle walls to interior tapestries to Burnham wood , to battlefields .No stage hands, no scene changes just light and colour and words and above all pacing, pacing pacing asleep yet? Oh and I'd be working from the RSC text which is blissfully free of a lot of the crap that got added to the play later .. James listen to me! The Hecat stuff is horrible and will remain horrible no matter how much you rewrite it! It isn't Spokeshave and should be cut. :- But I adore the idea of killing Macbeth on a balcony and slicing gory chunks of watermelon to freak the audience out! Saw a great outdoor Romeo and Juliet last year, it got rained off before anyone actually died .. hey a happy ending! And Shakepeare slash!! now * that's* an idea
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 21:02:15 GMT
A rat! A rat!
R&J is positively quivering with slashy subtext, no doubt. Very easily played up, or played down, depending on which way the wind is blowing ;D
I don't want to think about beheading just at the moment. Might address that watermelon issue some other time.
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Post by deborahw37 on Sept 22, 2004 21:07:18 GMT
A rat! A rat! where!! R&J is positively quivering with slashy subtext, no doubt. Very easily played up, or played down, depending on which way the wind is blowing ;D the last two productions I saw had very camp Mercutios ;D I don't want to think about beheading just at the moment. Might address that watermelon issue some other time. Oh god yes! I typed that before watching the news and then wished I hadn't
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 21:12:35 GMT
Behind the arras! ;D I hate this world. A lot. I'm going to do something very anal in a few minutes. Just warning you. And it will be on topic. Tra la la.. Please feel free to ignore! I just wanted to make a note for my own benefit of all the Shakeshaft plays I have seen "live". Y'all can go off and cross-dress or something... All's Well That Ends Well - yes, more than once As You Like It - yes, more than once The Comedy of Errors - yes, more than once Cymbeline - yes Love's Labours Lost - yes Measure for Measure - - yes, more than once The Merry Wives of Windsor - - yes, more than once The Merchant of Venice - yes, more than once A Midsummer Night's Dream - yes, more than once Much Ado About Nothing - yes, more than once Pericles, Prince of Tyre - NO! Taming of the Shrew - yes, more than once The Tempest - yes, more than once Troilus and Cressida - yes Twelfth Night - - yes, more than once Two Gentlemen of Verona - NO! Winter's Tale - yes (excellent bear!)
I'm not really a Histories gal... can you tell?! Henry IV, part 1 - yes Henry IV, part 2 - yes Henry V - yes, more than once Henry VI, part 1 - no Henry VI, part 2 - no Henry VI, part 3 - no Henry VIII - no King John - no Richard II - no Richard III - no
Antony and Cleopatra - yes Coriolanus - yes Hamlet - yes, more than once Julius Caesar - yes King Lear - yes, more than once Macbeth - yes, many more than once! Othello - yes, more than once Romeo and Juliet - yes, more than once Timon of Athens - no Titus Andronicus - no
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Post by nightnurse on Sept 22, 2004 22:49:06 GMT
Sorry...it just leapt out at me *snort* ;D I had to study Antony and Cleopatra for A level, and we were taken to see a very fine production in Manchester I think ( it was a bloody long time ago allright!) Janet Suzmann(sp) was amazing as Cleopatra, but I can't remember who else was in it We also saw 'Merchant of Venice' , or, as it was delightfully renamed, 'Virgins of Menace' by a friends mum who was prone to the odd Spoonerism ;D My favourite is Hamlet , and I saw Derek Jacobis Hamlet twice (oo..err missus!) I was a 'Friend of the Old Vic' way back when I was doing my training, but unfortunately was always to busy and too poor from said training to take advantage of going too often Deb....I love the sound of your Macbeth staging ;D
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 22:56:19 GMT
We think we saw the same production of one of those Jacobi Hamlets, don't we NN.... that was the most sexually charged Hamlet I've ever seen. *fans self at memory* Do you know what, I saw an RSC Hamlet quite a long time ago. It was pretty good, as I recall, although nothing much new or enlightening about the production... Apart from, I can't remember who in hell was Hamlet, but Horatio somehow shone. He was played by Tom Wilkinson, who has turned into a very fine actor and been in numerous and films now.
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Post by nightnurse on Sept 22, 2004 23:05:01 GMT
Ho yes ...that was hawt! Tom Wilkinson is fantastic...so versatile. Actually I must dig out my Hamlet programme and see who else was in it....I only recall being riveted by DJ ;D
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 23:09:36 GMT
Do you know, I threw out my entire programme collection when I was moving a few years ago. Just couldn't face packing them yet again. Of course, I regret it hugely now. RSC programmes were always the best. Very informative.
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Post by nightnurse on Sept 22, 2004 23:15:28 GMT
Oh no PK....I never throw owt out....which explains why there's no room in the garage for a car, and the attic is in danger of collapsing into the living room My Ma in Laws gentleman friend used to take her to the theatre every week, and had the most amazing programme collection, but when he died the MIL got rid of them all...sold them to a dealer
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Post by PokerKitten on Sept 22, 2004 23:18:31 GMT
Well, I did move three times in one year and I was getting more and more exhausted! But I wish I'd just given the task to someone else! I had progs going back to 1978 *sob*
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Post by Pixie on Sept 23, 2004 12:04:35 GMT
Saw DJ in Becket, he was excellent.
Actually, Deb, I like the sound of your staging - sounds pretty cool.
I really wish I could see more productions - would be great! Must try to persuade mother/sister/anyone else to come with me... if there are any on anywhere nearby.
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