Ep 17: Underneath - discuss!

[PokerKitten]

A couple of casting sides are out for 17. Oh, and Lindsey's back.... ;D

The characters are Trish and Zack....

Trish is beautiful..... and.... Lindsey's missus!! And Zack is.... his sprog! (son, in universal language!)

The first scene we have is Angel and another unspecified Fang Gang male arrived at Lindsey's house to be greeted by Trish. Angel asks if Lindsey is home and she says yeah, invites them in, offers them coffee. Lindsey appears, all domesticated, saying Zack's hockey stick is missing. He doesn't seem fazed when he sees the W&H boys.

The next scene is all domesticated too, with Lindsey and Zack chatting, then Trisha asking Lindsey to go fetch a new light bulb. They are in the basement and Lindsey is not too keen..... tries to get out of it but there is no good excuse....

And then the next scene we have... well! It plays out like the previous one. But Gunn is playing Lindsey's part Same convos, dressed like Lindsey (and the directions say "wearing the necklace")

[PokerKitten]

Huh, have they changed the name already?!

Film Jerk
www.filmjerk.com/

Angel: Episode 17, which begins filming February 6, is looking to cast Nancy, a pretty suburban housewife, and Zach, her well-adjusted suburban 10-year-old son. Pretty thin info on this one so far, but early info indicates this may be villain Lindsey’s wife and stepson. Sarah Fain and Elizabeth Craft are credited as the writers for this episode and Skip Schoolnik the director.

And oh joy, it's those women again

ETA - Film Jerk have now updated their info and it now reads:

Angel: Episode 17, which begins filming February 6, is looking to cast Nancy, a pretty suburban housewife, and Zach, her well-adjusted suburban 10-year-old son. Pretty thin info on the episode entitled "Underneath" so far, but early info indicates this may be villain Lindsey’s wife and stepson. Sarah Fain and Elizabeth Craft are credited as the writers for this episode and Skip Schoolnik the director. Additional tidbit added on February 2nd: Producers are now looking to cast a possibly recurring character named Hamilton, listed as being in his 30s to early 40s. The character is described as having an "imposing physical presence, but not muscle-bound...[he is] elegant, articulate, wears an expensive suit well.

ANOTHER bloke?! Why?! *off to see if there are sides for this character*

[PokerKitten]

Okay, big ol' Hamilton scene is out I'd have brought it sooner if it weren't for darn work!

The scene opens in W&H's "parking garage" and Eve, Lindsey, Spike and Angel are there. Hamilton is approaching Eve and she is backing away, pleading for him not to do "this". Angel has a sword! Spike circles round the other way, and all the while Lindsey is on the ground "looking feral". Gadzooks, but Angel says Eve is under his protection!

Hamilton's only weapon is.. a pen. Eve still trying to change Hamilton's mind as Angel advances on them... But then H brings out... a contract. Eve knows the game is up and she has to sign it. H introduces himself to Angel - "I'm Edward Hamilton. Your new liaison to the Senior Partners." Dundunduuuunnnn!

Eve signs the contract as directed by H, as he explains to us that Eve has signed over her duties, her immortality and "certain other privileges", to him. The Senior Partners wanted a change because Eve is too easily distracted... She says she fell in lurve... at which H congratulates Lindsey! Then he compliments S and A on their "escape", saying it was very clever. He says he'll be in touch, he has great ideas...

Angel doesn't like this and rants about it being his house, and only his ideas count! Absolutely, says H. SPs fully support Angel... yeah, right! As H leaves he welcomes Spike to the team Yikes!

The next wee bit is blacked out...

Then we cut to the roof of Fred's apartment, where Wes and... Illyria are standing. So, Illyria is still in business?! She isn't looking happy, but she is still there.... Wes asks if she is alright...

[PokerKitten]

There has been some speculation, because of something one person posted at the C&S, that Julie Benz was returning - as "Nancy" (which I think COULD be feasible if this is a kinda fantasy arrangement for Lindsey, because he lurved Darla so.... Otherwise, WTF?!) Anyway, this is what Tensai has to say:

Which brings me to the report at the Cross and Stake - Angel's Soul Spoiler Board, that Julie Benz has been signed for Episode 17 on. According to the info, she will be the 'wife' of Lindsey in that episode, and will thereafter return as Darla.

So is it a 'foiler'?...

Normally, I would say that it's probably false without much thought, as I've heard nothing to independently verify this information. I think that overall the storyline with Darla is done. If they did go with this, I would think it would be more along the lines of how she appeared last season in the Connor storyline. Which strangely enough, could almost fit the above information. Since Lindsey is in a fantasy-reality, and his guards are 'spirits' or something along those lines, why not have it be Darla.

But while there may seem to be a possibility is there, I have to take into account that this is a completely new source, and there is no confirmation on this. Plus, in terms of story, having Darla in this scene would have no impact on the actual events happening in the Real World. To me, it's too much effort for such a small scene. I see nothing at all in the upcoming storyline that would require an actual return of Darla, so I'm doubtful that if she did come back, it would be for more than this one episode.

So while my gut says that it's 'foilage' (albeit very clever 'foilage'), with all the events that have happened this season I can't rule it out as 100% false. But I think the safe call is that it's false, and if I had to rank it, I would go with an 'Unlikely'.

www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002751.php

Whatever ends up happening, episodes 15-17 are all apparently linked and something of a mind fuck.... Bring it on!

[PokerKitten]

Okay, she is Trish again And a different Trish to the previous episodes' Trish, who was Fred's mum Trish *brain explodes*

ADDITIONAL CAST
Eve SARAH THOMPSON
Harmony MERCEDES MCNAB
Hamilton ADAM BALDWIN
Lindsey CHRISTIAN KANE
Trish NICHOLL HIREN
Zach CHRISTIAN BOEWE

PRODUCTION CREDITS
Written by SARAH FAIN & ELIZABETH CRAFT (I hope they do better than with their previous eps this season )
Directed by SKIP SCHOOLNIK

[PokerKitten]

Summary from Mythical Boards

Episode 17 Summary and Discussion
Enjoy.

Episode 17


Angel, Gunn, and Spike rescue Lindsey from a suburban hell dimension; Lorne and Eve are pursued by a representative of the Senior Partners; and Wesley consoles Illyria, who hates her new world.

When Angel tells Spike that he wishes he had someone who could tell him what the Senior Partners are up to these days, Spike says he knows just such a person. A bit later they arrive at Lindsey’s apartment, where Eve is still hiding. Angel threatens to tell the Senior Partners where Eve is if she doesn’t help them, but before he can do so, the walls begin to shake and Eve, trembling, begs Angel to save her. A moment later a well-dressed man named Hamilton enters, but the room is empty. Angel, Spike, and Eve return to Angel’s office, where Angel tells Harmony to lock down the building. Then Angel visits Gunn, who’s still in the hospital wing, and learns he can take custody of a wayward employee, which should help him protect Eve from the Senior Partners. Angel thanks Gunn, but warns him that no matter how guilty he feels for his role in Fred’s death, he can’t hide in the hospital forever. Meanwhile, at Fred’s apartment, Wesley dreams about Fred, but when he wakes it’s Illyria watching him from Fred’s body. Illyria comments on Wes’ nightmare, saying that if this world is so disappointing, he should leave. Back at Wolfram and Hart, Angel tells Eve he can protect her, but demands that in return, she tell him all she knows about the Senior Partners. She says she knows nothing Angel doesn’t already know. She does say, though, that Lindsey knew much more than she, which is why the Senior Partners snatched him away. Also, although Angel assumed Lindsey was dead, Eve says he’s probably locked in some sort of hell dimension. Then we see Lindsey (wearing a distinctive necklace) waking up, kissing his beautiful wife, and cuddling his adorable 9-year-old son in a perfect suburban utopia.

A bit later Lindsey steps out of his perfect house, picks up his perfectly centered newspaper, waves to the perfect postman, and goes back inside. At Wolfram and Hart, Spike and Angel try to figure out which hell Lindsey’s in, but then Gunn enters and says he knows where Lindsey is. Meanwhile, in suburbia, as Lindsey helps his son Zach with his science homework, Lindsey’s wife Trish asks Lindsey to get a light bulb from a shelf in the basement, which makes Lindsey very nervous. At the same time Gunn directs Angel and Spike to a special Wolfram and Hart car that drives them through a long tunnel to the perfect suburban neighborhood. At Fred’s apartment, Wesley turns Illyria’s suggestion around, saying that if she’s not happy here, then perhaps she should leave. Illyria gets mad, but then breaks down, saying the walls are closing in on her and she can’t breathe. Back in suburbia, the Wolfram and Hart car arrives at Lindsey’s house. Angel, Spike, and Gunn go in, but Lindsey doesn’t recognize them, and says he’s never heard of Wolfram and Hart. Meanwhile, back at Angel’s office, Harmony assures Eve that nothing can happen to her… but then sirens blare, announcing an intruder. Hamilton punches out a guard in the lobby, and as he approaches Angel’s office, Eve, Lorne, and Harmony scream. Back in suburbia Angel snatches off Lindsey’s necklace. The spell he was under ends, and he finally recognizes Angel. Then Trish enters with an Uzi and starts shooting.

While Angel fights Trish, the others run outside, but their magic car has vanished. As Zach enters with another Uzi, Gunn says the only way out is through something called the Wrath. He asks Lindsey what’s behind the cellar door, and when Lindsey reacts fearfully, they realize they’ve chosen correctly. Back at Wolfram and Hart, Eve, Lorne, and Harmony flee to the elevator. Hamilton chases them, but the doors close just in time. In Lindsey’s basement Angel, Spike, and Gunn are shocked to find a fully outfitted torture chamber, including a pile of bloody human hearts that have been brutally cut from their owners. There’s also a large furnace where an intense fire — the Wrath – flares. Before they can figure out how to open it, however, a massive medieval demon, outfitted as an executioner, appears. Angel and Spike grab weapons and start to fight the demon, but then Gunn steps back and dons the necklace Lindsey used to wear. As he does, the demon senses him and stops fighting. Angel realizes what’s happening, and Gunn explains that if someone is freed from this torture dimension, another person must remain behind. Angel realizes that Gunn planned this as his own penance from the beginning, but Gunn is already starting to fade away, and there’s nothing they can do. As the demon starts to fade, too, Angel, Gunn, and Lindsey walk into the Wrath’s flames while Trish calls down to Gunn, who suddenly can’t remember why he’s in the basement. A moment later, as Lorne, Eve, and Harmony flee through the Wolfram and Hart garage, Angel, Spike, and Lindsey, still flaming a bit, hit the hood of their car. Lorne and Eve jump out to help them, but then Hamilton arrives.

Eve cringes, but as Hamilton approaches, instead of a weapon, he whips out a contract and instructs her to sign it. Finally, resigned, she does, and Hamilton explains that Eve has been fired by the Senior Partners, and he is taking her place as Angel’s new liaison. He tells Angel he’s looking forward to working with him, welcomes Spike to the team, and leaves. Back at Fred’s apartment Wesley and Illyria stand on the balcony, looking out at the city. She’s calmer now, and says she can breathe again and doesn’t feel quite so trapped here. Wes realizes finally that she really can’t leave, and she marvels at how Wesley can stand to live here, shut inside tiny rooms all the time… but he says it’s not the rooms that make it hard. Finally, at Wolfram and Hart, Angel asks Lindsey about the Senior Partners and Lindsey says Angel already knows what he knows: the world’s a bad place. Angel insists he’s done a lot of good since coming to Wolfram and Hart, but Lindsey says hell and the apocalypse are going on right here, right now. Angel doesn’t believe him, but Lindsey points out all the compromises Angel’s been forced to make lately, and gradually Angel realizes that everything he’s been doing in the past few months has been just a distraction to keep him busy so he won’t notice the real evil… which must have been the Senior Partners’ plan all along. As the horror of this sinks in, we see Gunn sitting with Zach at the kitchen table, going through the same science lesson Lindsey was helping him with earlier. Then Trish asks Gunn to go down to the basement to fetch a new light bulb.

GUNN!!! NO!!!!

[slaybelle74]

i'm happy to see lindsey back,but why does gunn have to sacrifice himself???

[PokerKitten]

He feels guilty about Fred's death because of the part he played in shipping in Illyria... and he did love Fred, even if that love has changed, so that makes it all the harder. And he probably feels that if he hadn't been so desperate to cling on to his braniac skills, he would never have gotten into the situation of doing dodgy deals leading to Illyria taking out Fred, in the first place. Selfishness and recklessness.... poor old Gunn They CAN'T leave hime there, that would be too awful! I'm sure they can find some ghastly client to trick into taking his place..... only that would be immoral...

[PokerKitten]

Heh, well we know they don't just leave him there now.........

But anyway, there are some pics from the ep at Mythical Board

Lorne looks like he is protecting Eve.... And Spike and Angel continue to look... chummy!

[PokerKitten]

tensai has some news on revisions to the ep:

ATS: Tidbit For 17

Very interesting news about 'Underneath', Episode 17. Although the episode is already shot and presumed to be in the can (they've already shot 18), it appears that the first scene may have been reworked or completely replaced. Casting information came out today, which while not revealing anything too spoilery, could indicate that changes are being made. Then again, it could merely be a reshoot of an scene that was already present in the script, but for one reason or another, needs to be done again.

New/Changed Scene

Brief bit, which takes place in a demon bar. Lorne sits listening to the bartender, Carlos, sing. Carlos wants a reading about his upcoming proposal. Off Lorne's solemn look, Carlos is worried. But Lorne explains that they'll have a big June wedding.

Carlos is very happy, and pushes Lorne for more info, about a possible child in the future. A very tired Lorne, launches into a monologue about how tired he is of pretending that everything is going to be okay. He might have be part of the 'in' crowd in Hollywood, but he's gotten to the point that he's telling people what they want to hear, rather than the truth.

He continues on this train of thought, about how 'Happy Hour' is anything but that. All he knows is that he's been drinking since he learned the girl he loved would die, hoping that somehow it will help him get through this. But all he can do is go back to Wolfram and Hart, and try to act like he can help.

Lorne leaves the bar, and we cut to Angel, Spike, and Eve returning to Wolfram and Hart after escaping from Hamilton at the apartment.
www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/002945.php

[PokerKitten]

I've now read the casting sides for Carlos re these changes, and Lorne has a LOT of dialogue! It is probably the most he has said all season. And it is poignant stuff and gives him a chance to act his green ass off.... something to put on his showreel when he is looking for work soon....?

[slaybelle74]

andy hallet is such a talent-i love lorne!!and i hope they give him lots of good scenes before ats is gone.

[PokerKitten]

I know we had pics for this ep ages ago, but did we have the Harmony one? Intriguing - mediasharx.com/index.php/news/1587

[PokerKitten]

The usual suspects - Dori, and AA - missed the wildfeed broadcast today. Either the time was changed, or the buggers went digital, which these guys can't pick up apparently.

[Cyrus]

Okay, I don't remember reading any major summaries for this ep, so anyway, I'm writing this as the ep airs when I feel like commenting on something...

Spike being the only one attending Angel's "important meeting"... awww!

opening credits: Amy's stuff has Illyria's clips in it, and Mercedes has been added

Lindsey's kid says as L and wife are kissing: "Stop it! That's where I get sisters!" LMAO Perfect Lindsey goes out to get his Perfect Newspaper and waves at his Perfect Neighbors... heh... Spike: "This isn't hell, it's the 'burbs... close enough!"

OMG! That's so funny! Illyria was talking about all the worlds she's been in... and mentioned one of all shrimp! (Anya's alternate dimensions)

The guy in the suit who was after Eve reminded me of a Matrix agent. I half expected him to say something like, "Hello Miiisster Anderson."

Illyria to Wesley: "...with an unstable human who drinks too much whiskey and called me a smurf."

Shirtless Spike... while Lorne was pulling bullets out of Spike's back.

aaaahhh! Gunn replaces Lindsey in the whole I-need-an-oven-bulb-from-the-basement morning scene in the kitchen, and as he starts to head downstairs... cut to executive producers screen.

There was some interesting stuff... and I didn't write much while watching... the hour just flew by... I'm waiting for next week's promo right now...

[slaybelle74]

my fav parts tonight...mention of the shrimp world(i miss anya!!!)....smurf illyaria lol...and shirtless spike!!!!and i loved eve,lorne,and harmony's reaction to seeing the new guy shove his hand thru security guard's chest...awww!!!!shades of tabula rasa when the scoobs saw a vamp!!!...oh and angel's avengers...too funny!!!!

[PokerKitten]

Pulling bullets outta Spike?! I know they don't kill, but they sure do sting, poor baby!

We did have a summary, Cy, from Mythical Boards. Hope the downloads are ready SOON!

Herc sure liked this episode!

AICN
www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=17368

Herc Gives Tonight’s ANGEL Five Stars!!
I am – Hercules!!

Angel 5.17 FAQ

What’s it called?

“Underneath.”

Who’s responsible?

Teleplay is credited to Sarah Fain and Liz Craft (“Harm’s Way”).

When was the last time we saw a new “Angel”?

March 3. Knox died, and there was a flashback to Winifred leaving for California. The first episode of “Wonderfalls” was still nine days in the future!

What did Coax say about this one way back on Feb. 10?

“Those thinking that Lindsey was out of the running as ‘Angel’s’ fifth-season big bad were almost certainly right. After Fred is killed, Team Angel decides it needs to recruit someone who might know more than they do about the senior partners. So guess whom they rescue from a Wolfram-engineered purgatory?”

What does Guide say?

“While protecting Eve from a bounty hunter (Adam Baldwin), Angel grills her for info on the Senior Partners' plans and learns that an exiled Lindsey may have all the answers. But first the gang must save him from the torture dimension he currently occupies. Meanwhile, Wes gets to know Illyria better. Lindsey: Christian Kane. Eve: Sarah Thompson.”

Adam Baldwin (of “Firefly” fame) plays a bounty hunter? Wasn’t he supposed to be Team Angel’s new liaison to the senior partners?

He’s the new liason! I’ve little idea where Guide gets this "bounty hunter" business.

The big news?

This is easily the best thing Fain & Craft have cobbled together. It may be the best thing they ever do in their lives. Prepare to worship at their dainty -scribe toes.

What else is Guide not telling us?

You need to tape or TiVo or transcribe this episode. The DVD will never arrive soon enough.

How goes Wes’ bonding with Illyria? Does she make him reach for his hanky?

Not literally.

What’s doing with Spike?

James Marsters confirms his god-like status. I’m not certain he’s had more to work with since bolting the Buffster.

Did we ever find out why Guide called Lindsey “Sean” a few weeks ago?

No. This will forever remain a mystery, much like the reason Guide described “Buffy’s” evil god Glory as a time-traveler.

What’s doing with Krevlornswath? Did his badass self carry a sell-by date?

Lorne is all kinds of badass this week, in an entirely different way that you’d expect.

Does Amy Acker still look like Fred in the title credits?

Like Fred. But also like Illyria. And after seven years of hard work, the increasingly fabulous Mercedes McNab finally achieves regular staus in the Buffiverse. Is all this new? Because I was in the bathroom during the title sequence in 5.16.

What’s great?

Spike. Krev. Gunn. Wes. Fred. Harmony. Eve. Hamilton. Lindsey. Angel. The Baldwin’s arrival. The ice-cream vendor with the semiautomatic. "Angel's Avengers? That's..." "Beady little rat-snake?" "What I know is I started drinking the moment I found out that a girl I loved was going to die." "Okay, but you know how that never works?" “One world with nothing but shrimp.” “He is well-dressed.” “Didn’t see that coming.” “He’s not so bad!” “I was God to a god.” “Don’t flatter yourself.” “You still happy to see me?” So so so much more.

What’s not so great?

There ain’t nothing not great in this honey. It’s “Kill Bill Vol. 2” great. It’s “Buffy” great. I say, “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” great. All of which is saying something! I may have lied about “Gilmore Girls” being the best show in production!

How does it end, spoiler-boy?

“I kinda need it now.”

Herc’s rating for “Angel” 5.17?

*****

[slaybelle74]

;Dok...i always tape angel...so i went back and watched last night's ep again...and enjoyed it more the 2nd time around!!!it really has some great moments!!!

[PokerKitten]

Finally had the time to watch it, and I think my enjoyment was slightly impaired by the soundtrack of the download being too quiet. However, although it wasn't an exceptional ep, it was hugely enjoyable. And as Cy said, I think, it seemed to go so fast.

The best part for me was everything in the teaser, but especially Spike and Angel's interaction. Particularly Angel's expression as he thought about the Angel's Avengers thing, lol! Spike and his briefcase, and the beer. And Angel opening up to Spike about Fred and his decision to sign them up to W&H. He blabbed to him effortlessly. So good! And Spike was being so reassuring to him, and down to earth. No bickering or scoring cheap points.

There were a number of subtle changes in the titles, not just the Illyria thing, and Mercedes being added ( ). I particularly noticed Spike's double-dusting thing from Soul Purpose.

Other bits and bobs I enjoyed - Angel and Gunn talking atonement. Nicely written, beautifully acted. Infact J was terrific throughout. I felt his pain.

Whereas Wesley and Illyria I just wanted to slap! Wes is barking, okay. The only bearable thing about their gloomy exchanges was the shrimp world stuff.

Spike and the rather short list of hells, bless him!

The surbuban hell had its funny side, and the whole thing smacked of a fucked up version of Groundhog Day, the Truman Show, and The Prisoner (probably more, but those sprang to mind first).

Angel and Spike squealing about the sun!

Lorne and the Holy Motor Pool expletive.
And Angel dropping the suits, and opting for the Spike look... And what was with them adopting the same mannerisms and stances throughout - particularly the hands on hips in the parking garage near the end?!

We didn't need to see flesh of Spike, did we? Although it was nice to see someone taking care of him. Poor, sweet Lorne....

And poor, sweet Gunn

It can have been no great revelation to any of us that the Apocalypse was in the here and now and the SPs have just been keeping Angel busy. Is that really it, then? No bigger surprises to come? (I'm spoiled rotten and yet I still have to ask).

Have no clue why Herc saw fit to give the ep 5 stars, but it was def worth a 3 and 3/4, lol!

[PokerKitten]

Yeah, we know that. Obviously the director of that ep knew that as well, lol! ;D