Ep 20: The Girl In Question - discuss!

[Cyrus]

LMAO! Now that would have been good! Of course, we could still go back and do it for the season...

*sigh* And I was just thinking... filming is done, so if there was going to be a Spangel kiss, we would have heard about it. No way they could've kept that a secret...

[PokerKitten]

And that is one weird-ass trailer! Possibly the worst one they have had this season!

[Cyrus]

Here's my scribbles about this episode as it aired. I think I got all the typos out of it, but it still may not make sense lol!
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Spike and his hand-held video game! Wonder if there were out-takes because James got into the game and missed his cue...

Spike while playing vid game in Angel's office and has his feet proped up: "How do you say "wank off" in Italian?"

Spike to Angel: "You don't think I'll get you trapse off to Italy alone do you?!"

Spike to Angel: "I just want to see you happy... well not too happy because then I'll have to stake you."

Angel to Spike: "This is about us!"

Angel on the plane: "You want a drink?"
Spike: "God yes!"

ahhhhh a 4 second flashblack to Italy! Spike with black hair and shades saying chow?! Will have to check later.

oooh! Chained up Angel us and Spike! Spike shirtless! in their underwear! ! ! And Angelus tells the guy holding a crossbow on them that he'll "Snatch your little wee sticks out of the air and spend the next night shoving them slowly up your arse!"

Andrew! he answers Buffy and Dawn's apartment door.

awww angel and spike trying to get through the door at the same time!

Heh, Andrew says something about snuggling on the couch. I missed something and will have to rewatch it later, but something like, "You didn't know they were together" and then Spike says to Angel, "It's worse."

Naked Darla!

OMG! Spike and Angeulus mad about the Immortal with their women! Many slashy innuendos, both A/S and D/D. And D/D talking about heading to a bath together so "the boys can weep in private."
Dru to Darla: "Will you hold me under the water?"
Darla: "If you wish."
Dru is satisfied and giggles.

Spike: "Violate! In succession!"
Darla: "Concurrently."
Angelus: "Concurrently?! You never let us do that."

Heh! Back to the present with A & S getting mad together about Buffy with the Immortal.

Teehee! Andrew with a pore cleaning strip on his nose!

*gasp!* Fred's parents come to visit and Illyria changes into Fred and saves Wes' arse! He had them in his office and was just about to tell them, when Illyria walks in as Fred. Her parents of course don't know the difference, but Wes has a *whoa* look on his face.

damn fake buffy double

Spike to Angel: "Hold down the fort... be right back."

Angel called Spike Blondie bear!

Angel: "Sleeping together is not a relationship."
Spike: "It is if you do it enough times!"

slow mo S/A fighting in club with bad guys. heh, you should see the expressions on Spike's face when he's in slowmo. Ahh Angel just hit Spike! the simul-punch! with some dude singing about true love

ahh here comes the motorbike! Spike hops on and says hop in little mama toangel angel says I'm not riding on the back, and spike says he's getting away, so angel gets on spike's er, bike and grabs his middle... oh now spike says stop holding on so tight!

Spike: "Let go of me!"

Angel: "I want in charge of the head!"

oh Spike grabbed Angels wrist to look at his watch

Angel: "That's right no more screwing around." Did I miss something?

aww the boys collabrating!

heh W&H Rome office looks the same. what a way to save on set costs

oh my I love the way Illyria changed into Fred and p;ayed the role perfectly. Wes askes what are you doing and she says visiting with my folks. heh and the way fred's mother talks to wes!

Angel: "Don't you gys have like an Italian Wesley here?
Italian W&H woman: "Yes but he is taking a nap."

Spike: "Guns. Lots and lots of guns." LMAO he must've been watching the Matrix.

heh, angel tells the acathala story way different! He says he saved the world. Spike knows better and is all like *rolls eyes* "She killed you." and Angel says "but I told her to...." *look from Spike* "...I signaled her with my eyes!" Spike rolls eyes.

Spike: "and trapse off my my girl..." *look from Angel* "...our girl"

heh the game of keep-away with the head... Spike gets it... oh no the head wasn't in the bag it's a bomb! Ticks down from 0:04 to 0:01... cut to commercial of course.

oooh spike is coatless because they got blown up! and his jacket is destroyed! yay no more duster oh no wait Italian W&H lady gives him a new one. Damn.

LMAO @ Angel's new outfit!

Angel: "But she's not finished baking yet! And meanwhile the Immortal's eating cookie dough!" *funny look from Spike*

Andrew from the other room while changing: "Spike, is Angel crying?"
Spike: "No..." *looks at Angel* "...not yet..."

Andrew goes from a robe to a tux! And he has two girls!

Illyria keeps teasing Wes with Fred's form. Poor Wesley.

Spike: "Can't we just lock her in a box where no one can touch her like we did with Pavane?"
Angel: "Nah, she wouldn't let us. She's pretty strong."

Perfect opportunity for S&A to grab each other and smooch at the end when when they're talking about moving on... but of course they don't.

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Sorry if it doesn't make much sense... I'll have to go back and watch again... ;D I'm kind of in a Spangel-induced high...

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My screenshots! Click on the links for pics!

1. Sharing the doorway
2. Italian Spike in the 50s
3. Our boys' arses in their undies
4. More arse
5. Chained up
6. Close up of Spike chained up
7. Still chained up
8. Jumping in chains - rear view
9. Caught! Getting dressed (putting pants on)
10. Still dressing
11. Spike's face when he finds out Dru was with the Immortal too

[slaybelle74]

cy covered most of the highlights!!!!i loved this episode!!!!spike and angel scenes were great!!!and i'm amazed at amy acker-she is an amazing actor!!! ;Dbut seeing this just makes me sad that such a great show has been cancelled

[PokerKitten]

Cy, having read all the spoilers it made perfect sense, thanks dahlin'! ;D Can't wait to download and watch. So much sexual innuendo and tension! GoSpangelGo! VespaBoys4eva! LMAO! ;D

PS - I love the Italian cool dude look on our boy *faints* And no wonder Spike goes commando these days. Those underoos were seriously unlovely

[Cyrus]

LMAO yes the undies were quite baggy...

But our boys were chained up next to each other in a state of partial undress!

[witchwolf]

Cy- you are so funny! I'd love to see what you could splice together with a bit of audio tape.
We'd either pee our selves in hysterics or pant our selves into hyperventilation. (You have so gotten me into trouble at work with my giggle fits.) Thanks for your version of the re-cap.
I'm off to re-watch the boys and try to view it with your enlightenment.

[PokerKitten]

*whimper* The download isn't available yet from my usual source.

BUT, I have just seen the most excellent avi of Italian Spike *faints*

witchwolf, why do I feel like I know you?!

[witchwolf]

dunno.... I've lived many lives though
gotta figure out how to up my "anny", don't like being a lowly human w/ A *.

on a different subject, since you said you feel though you know me.... Akasha is druidic for spirit, the fifth element( also used by Anne Rice as the Queen of the damned) , I call my "momma" dog ( I have 5 ) Akasha since her paper name is fifth element. Also her daughter is named Cyrrah. pretty crazy hummm??

[PokerKitten]

My usual icon, which I should return to now really, is taken from a painting by DarkAdagio of how she sees Akasha in QotD.

I managed to get a snippet of 50s Spike and Dru and capped them. Lordy, the many faces of William/Spike we have seen, and al of them to die for (heh!).

*drums fingers impatiently on the desk waiting for the whole ep to appear for download*

[PokerKitten]

Oh man, that was a wild ride! ;D A lot of fun, yet ultimately exasperating to me. And it felt like the A/S relationship belonged to the pre-Illyria at W&H days. But I guess Buffy makes most everyone crazy and snarky

Seeing the lads like this, well... I always knew Spike was more talk and image than real pure hardcore evil action. But now I see Angelus was somewhat the same. Interesting.... Not to mention Darla! Some evil, ruthless ice queen she turned out to be! ;D Anyways, on with the fun!

The writers were on form right from the start, with Gunn's not-so-disguised dig at Angel about the baby from Time Bomb. And another wee bit of continuity with Spike declaring he wasn't going to be a garbage collector (having previously complained about not get the decent jobs, just reconnaisance yadayada). For some reason, Gunn's explanation of the demon lifecycle had my eyes bugging out with laughter! "They die, they pupate, they live again." God, I have loved Gunn so much this season...

Spangel on another plane journey. They really don't like it, do they?! And doesn't Angel realise, he can order staff to stock the private jet with big ol' bottles of hooch! They don't have to endure teeny mini bar style bottles . Interesting that Angel can't quite admit at this stage to Nina being his girlfriend, they just "hang out". Spike is funny with the "I just wanna see you happy.... Well, not too happy...." stuff, but please, not too much more of it because it is getting tired. The "Vampire constitution. Not always a plus." comment seemed more heartfelt to me than just a poke at not being able to get drunk fast enough. But that would be me reading too much meaning into throwaway lines, again. The idea of Angel spying on Buffy is kinda ewww, and took me back to what he was like before he made himself known to her. That was icky, I think... But I digress.

50s Italianate Spike (and Dru; how cool was she?!) is to die for, and I loved the way they shot that sequence - short and snappy, all style and b&w. Ciao, ciao, ciao, ciao. OMG, my face ached from grinning! LoveItLoveItLoveIt! Going on his immediate reaction to that snapshot of Spike's life, Angel doesn't seem to like it when he hasn't been a part of something, does he? But he was being all broody soul boy round that time, himself.

Spangel in chains. Not too pretty a picture, lol! Apart from delicious tufts of Spike armpit hair.... um, where was I? Oh yeah! Angelus and William really did seem to get along together just fine in 1894. Their banter was all affectionate and supportive *gets hot and bothered and has to move on to the next flashback* Darla's afterglow was all too apparent, beautifully mussed and sprawling. Angelus seemed to really care for her, don't you think? Before he realised what she'd been up to and the jealousy kicked in and it could be seen as being as much about the Immortal as her? Cold, heartless, ruthless Angelus? And another revelation to me was that Darla would be so entranced by a creature who was so morally ambiguous by her standards. I mean, since when did she admire spirituality?! LMAO! Apart from the length of time he spent in that monastery feeding his appetites, of course. "Oh darling. it was just fornication. Really great fornication!" ;D

Hee, William's crack (steady!) about Angelus being fitted for antlers was funny; made me think of the Chaos demon..... And the poor darling's face when an equally shagged out and luscious looking Dru appeared. Poor baby! "Son of a bitch!" That whole exchange - violated. In succession. Concurrently. You never let us do that! - was just freaking brilliant. So funny, very revealing. And the way the girls shimmied off for their bath together? Whilst they may have ruled out a foursome, I reckon there was plenty of m/m, f/f going down.

The boys declaring blood venegeance, and then demanding to know if it was on the guest list at the Immortals was priceless. They really came off as blustering eejits, instead of the Big Bads they were meant to be at this time. Seems the Immortal bests them every time.... The tidbit about Frankfurt, and William being all protective of Angelus! "Nuns are your thing! Everyone knows that!" ;D

Once in present day Italy, we actually seemed to have been deposited in one of those delightful 1960s comedies, complete with hokey Italian music and more stereotypes than you could rev a Vespa at! Andrew was sure tousled and relaxed when the boys came a knockin'! Andrew greeting Spike with another hug and an Italian "Oh my god!" And his "I part my threshold", hastily recovered but looking furtive, when inviting them in. Yeah Andrew, we know you cleaned up real nice later, talked about people changing, and then went out with two Italian lovelies (female), but we all know who you'd willing be parting your threshold for, given half a chance.

More to come, I'm afraid....

[PokerKitten]

Good lord, whoever thought we'd hear Angel call Spike "Blondie bear"?! ;D The nightclub scene with the fake Buffy, hair swirling in the distance, was so daft! Spike is all business, ready to take control. He clearly tells Angel to hold down the fort, wearing his determined face as he heads (hah ha) onto the dancefloor. So Angel, that left YOU in charge of the head in the bag - the reason you were supposed to be in Rome! Not Spike, YOU! Very irresponsible to just go running off after Spike like that! Scared he was going to get to Buffy. Insecure, much?! "Sleeping with someone's not a relationship." "It is if you do it often enough." Spike is right; though it doesn't mean it's a good relationship. But hey, that wasn't the point. Oh, and when it seems clear Buffy is lost to them, Nina suddenly becomes Angel's girlfriend afterall You big lug! Nina, next time you go wolfie, bite the bastard's head off, don't care which one! He's dicking you around, pet!

The croony Italian-style song backing the slo-mo fight is class! Spike slugging Angel and vice-versa, and the duster flapping in Angel's face, hee! As they hit each other "by mistake", the vocals playing over it are "Why should true love have to part?" Yes boys, you are the oens made for each other. Everyone can see that! Just admit it yourselves and we can all ride into this Apocalypse happy!

And then just what I had been waiting for! VespaBoys! ;D Putting along after the sports car! "Hop on, little momma" "Stop holding on so tight!" "Let go of me!" Hee, fanfic fuel for weeks to come! ;D And so *adjusts monocle* Spike speaks Italian afterall *raises eyebrow* Angel seems surprised... did he really fall for it, when Spike was saying he couldn't go head colelcting because he didn't know the language? Jeez, pay the guy more attention! See, he hides his knowledge, his learning, his erstwhile bookishness. Always has, since the turning. Angel, you dummy!

It is always Spike trying to get them back on track in this episode, but always caving in! So, they are going to refocus on getting back the head... But where are they next? back at the club! Spike talking about the Immortal some more is tantalising. "Every time he shows up I either lose my girl, get beaten by an angry mob, or get thrown in prison for tax evasion." All these glimpses of Spike'sbackstory - we have to see that "Long story"! ALL OF IT!!

It's Spike to the rescue again, with the ideas. Italian branch of W&H. The busty CEO has the full measure of our boys, Im afraid. She plays them like violins! But she is dead on with "You are the very meaning of handsome!" Sing it, sista!

I began wheezing when Spike muttered about the Immortal climbing Everest. Several times! Stop it, you're killing me! ;D And even the Italian male-sounding demons love the big I... And the fucker has written a book! "Life changing". *collapses in a giggling heap*

But I sobered up pretty smartish when Spike is mourning his tattered coat. "It's my second skin. It's who I am". No it freaking isn't! THIS is what you need to move on from, my boy! *screams with frustration, particularly when a new one is handed over by the comely CEO, with 10 more on the way home to LA* Angel's new jacket.... Well... *speechless*

Angel ranting over the cookie dough speech, to Spike's complete bewilderment. Angel, can you now see how Buffy was playing you? Come on, penny drop! But I really really wish Andrew hadn't said that if they moved on, one of them might catch the Buffster one day.... Why? Just leave it alone!

Although the closing scene back at the offices in LA was funny, despite all their talk, the boys really don't seem to be moving on at all. And I really wish the writers had allowed them to. Reluctantly. But resignedly. And finally. *sigh* Hence my exasperation.

Finally, the serious moments in the episode, revolving around Wes and Illyria. I felt much more compassion for Wes than of late. Again I had the feeling of an episode out of sequence. After the events between he and Illyria, and Fred's parents, I can quite see how he would be losing it, going bonkers, being torn apart inside. Yet, we had the over the top mad act last week.

Anyway, it was quite startling to see Illyria transform itself into Fred. In particular, the way Amy went back and forth between fred and Illyria whilst still in Fred's form. Gave me chills. Christ, well done Amy! And you know what? Earlier in the episdoe, Illyria had insisted it only did stuff because and when it wanted to; not because anyne else wanted it to.... Yet when Wes said no more, it reverts back to Illyria... for him.... hmmm.

[nightnurse]

;D OH.....MY .....GOD ! What a fantastic ep....loved it , definitely one to watch over and over again.
How did they manage to pack so much into 49 minutes?
The Spangel was priceless, the Wes/Illyria/Fred arc very sad, and I even managed to put up with the overdone Italian accents on display!

[Incogni2]

Fiiiiiiiiiinally saw this ep....had missed it due to being in England and getting dripped on at JM's gig when it was orignally aired...**heavy sigh**but TNT is showing the whole last season. Not much I can say at this late date except that I loved it! Guess they'll be showing the next one on Monday, which I also had missed...being in Worcester at the time...**another heavy sigh**

[Cyrus]

Incogni2 said:

but TNT is showing the whole last season.

Oooh really? I didn't know that! ;D *runs off to check guide*

[angelicvampyre]

Ok I LOVED this ep but I have an issue and I am sorry but I am going to have to jump up on my



Ok Spikes Coat! What's with that! I am sorry you can't just replace it like it is nothing! The coat is what made him Spike (well not really but you get my meaning!) The fact that it was a turning point for Spike in season 7 of Buffy and it was an symbol of what he was and what he has become! They just replace it and send another 10 to LA? How can the writer be so off handed about this! Did they not see Lie's my parents told me! Spike has a thing with the coat, it's who he was what he has come from and why he got to where he is. The coat IS important! I am just really upset about this!
ending my

[Pluto7077]

was just on my way to bed when I spotted this thread. Havn't read through properly as am too tired post Halloween. Look out for reports of James and David's live commentary on this episode - they were hysterical I love the episode but even more so now. David kept going on and on about the breasts on the Italian CEO of Wolfram and Hart. He was very naughty but so funny.